Rossman Speaks

[bonkycat]

Well, the details from Rossman's presentation to the Mineral Society of Southern California on Friday the 13th have been posted.

The information was relayed from the perspective of an attendee and I doubt very much that Dr. Rossman's official presentation spent any time focusing on bashing Robert.

The facts of the information are very interesting and I hope an official report will be forthcoming.

There are two points from this writing that I will post.

As it turns out, one can not rely on observational techniques using immersion microscopes, hand-held spectroscopes, refractometers, filters etc. to determine treatment and localities of this gem.

Yet Robert was able to detect treatment with these techniques plus the latest technology in Raman microscope.

And

Furthermore, based on potassium argon ratios in all of the samples studied, it was determined that it is likely that all red Andesine not originating from Oregon, has been subjected to laboratory diffusion with copper to produce it's red color.

Oops! Sounds like Congo is out too. This was clear to us when we cracked one in half! (pun intended)

I personally was ridiculed for stating "At this time I personally believe that the only natural copper colored red and green feldspar currently on the market and the only proven mine is Oregon"

It has been a tough year for many people involved in this, and regardless of the personal nonsense wrapped up in all of it, I am thankful that a widely accepted expert in the field has finally given some semblance of the truth regarding this material.

Now maybe consumers will get a fair shake and the Oregon Miners can get their goods on the market the way they should have been able to do years ago.

[YourGemologist]

Excellent information Bonkycat.

I think the key issue is that Rossman and others should be asking themselves one question:

If what he is saying about ID of this material with ordinary gemological tools is correct, then.....how did we do it?

How were we able to identify this material as diffusion treated with only these tools?


I would like to hear Dr. Rossman's answer to this.

Robert

[Tequila]

It all goes back to "the Dixie cup" as simple as it appears to have been for you guys (the fact that a Dixie cup was used versus a big dollar, super scientific tool) there can be no way that your results can be accepted. LOL

Not everyone has the budget of all the "big dogs" so I believe that anything that works (Dixie cup vs expensive glass cylinder) is acceptable in this instance.

Keep up the good work you guys, Time IS on your side.

Tequila

[VP2006]

“We have long suspected that the plethora of red andesine and labradorite suddenly available from mysterious remote locations was very suspicious. We suspected that the material has undergone some sort of treatment to make it red.

We were right!” (GO Admin personal comment Dr. George Rossmann on Red Feldspar 3/16/09; 12:16am)

Yep, they long suspected it was suspicious. Right!
http://gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpB...light=andesine
http://gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpB...light=andesine


Whatever.


I’ll ask you all something I noticed in 2006 when this mess first hit my radar.
Why is it that the “Imitation” Andesine reports all seem to begin with something like:

“Some attractive feldspar from Africa that resembled red labradorite from Oregon”

“Facetable labradorite has been known from Oregon for many years”

“Gem quality feldspar (labradorite) has been recovered for years from the U.S. state of Oregon”

Etceteras, etcetera, etc?



And now the “guided tour” Tibetan mine is also suspect Mongolian material based on the chemical markers. Oops.

“Regarding the Tibetan location.
G&G recently featured a blurb with photos of the mine site. There is a picture of several red xls in an outcrop. As much as I wanted to believe in the existence of this location, and presumed those doing the reporting were far more knowledgeable than I, I have to admit, I've never seen xls sitting in a matrix that resembled that photo.” (GO Admin personal comment 3/16/09; 11:12 am)

OK, Double Whatever Sherlock . . . . That geologic observation was made here first.

FYI The “blurb” was regurgitated several times by several “labs” over the last few months it became a 5 page interpretation in the last issue of Gems and Gemology; displaying more suspicious photos similar to the one described above, plus Ahmadjan NEWEST claim “A visit to the mountain peaks in the mining area revealed JURASSIC volcanic rocks and detrital deposits, a volcanic origin is also the case for similar feldspar from Oregon” (G&G Winter 2008, 369 – 73). There goes that “imitation to Oregon” comment again.

GAAJ’s “final draft” is actually posted on their site with helpful graphs and more suspicious photos—my personal favorite shows the author standing in front of what appears to be appropriately inclined sandstone layers interbedded by detrital deposits. Hate to break it to them but for starters if there is any gem quality feldspar in Tibet they are on the wrong side of the convex plateau and in the completely wrong geologic era to find what they seek. And guess what you get when you mix saltwater with andesine . . . . sodalite, lol.


Nothing has been confirmed or denied concerning the diffused material before the Chinese operation got off the ground; but don’t tell the Torch and Pitchfork Crowd at GO that as it is obviously impossible for them to understand any of the facts at hand unless they come from someone they want to hear them from. Period. No sense wasting further energy there, but I do love how they always choose to ignore any uncomfortable realities.

The Andesine fraud was perpetrated on the buying public beginning in 2002 so the folks at GO and elsewhere with any problems of their imagined grievances is completely moot. The ongoing “bad science” and “origin of diffused” Banana Trap is trifling at best. Monkey brains anyone? Obviously they all know the correct response to those accusations rests at the feet of them who whined about it the loudest and those who hyped the material as a substitution to Oregon feldspar from the start. Rational individuals know that regardless of where the starter material came from or how the correct conclusions were drawn if you’re going to sell it in this country your product had better be as advertised.

So Whatever et.al.



Sincerely.
Thank you Mr Furuya, Dr. Emmett, Dr. Rossman and everyone else who actually contributed so far to the continuing verification of imitation Oregon Sunstone.

VP

[Jamey S.]

Maybe now some apologies will be issued to the ISG for all the slander/libel/defamation that took place over the last year!!! Oh, wait, all we will be able to hear is a muffled noise, because there are a lot of people who now have their mouth full of their feet!! But, when all you are really concerned about is selling off your inventory, protecting friends/colleagues, etc. before the truth gets out I guess it really doesn't matter.

[Crystal Star]

Originally Posted by Jamey S.

Maybe now some apologies will be issued to the ISG for all the slander/libel/defamation that took place over the last year!!!

Yeah, right. What are you smoking, Jamey?!! But thanks for the good laugh.

[bonkycat]

Since I don't read at GO, it should be said that I was provided the Rossman information via email. I have also had numerous messages today regarding comments made about me on that forum.



** Moment of frustration. I stooped and I shouldn't have.
My apologies.**




I didn't bug Robert for 6 years; bad math or bad facts can be quickly clarified by asking rather than assuming by all.

[YourGemologist]

Originally Posted by bonkycat

Since I don't read at GO, it should be said that I was provided the Rossman information via email. I have also had numerous messages today regarding comments made about me on that forum.

** Moment of frustration. I stooped and I shouldn't have.
My apologies.**

I didn't bug Robert for 6 years; bad math or bad facts can be quickly clarified by asking rather than assuming by all.

Bonkycat,

An interesting fact was pointed out to me this last week by a consumer who has followed this situation:

Without the ISG and our research the folks at GO would have nothing to talk about. They have done no research of their own. They can only talk about the research of others, and yet do so as if they, themselves, are the experts in the field of research gemology.

And yet, not one person on GO has done any actual research on these topics.

By their own admission, without the ISG that forum would not exist, literally or figuratively.


And this was not from me, but an observation from a consumer who reads both forums.

Interesting observation from a consumer. And quite true when you think about it. Take away all of the rhetoric about the ISG and our community members from GO...what would you be left with over there?


Robert

[YourGemologist]

Originally Posted by Jamey S.

Maybe now some apologies will be issued to the ISG for all the slander/libel/defamation that took place over the last year!!! Oh, wait, all we will be able to hear is a muffled noise, because there are a lot of people who now have their mouth full of their feet!! But, when all you are really concerned about is selling off your inventory, protecting friends/colleagues, etc. before the truth gets out I guess it really doesn't matter.

Right on the money, Jamey.

Right on the money.

Robert

[Lee Little]

I believe those folks over at naysayers on line are serious athletes. What amazing feats of back pedaling.