Red Labradorite/Andesine and JTV

[Cattrix]

I thought I have heard the show hosts say the material they are selling has no shiller,,, as that would be lower quality "sunstone material" and that all they sell is the Gemmy quality. (?) All I know is that much of the stones I see on TV look remarkably like the material that has come out of Plush area here in Oregon..(for quite some time). I believe that "Sunstone" is my states official gemstone. personally I don't see what all the fuss is about,, I don't think it is all that attractive unless it is the RED RED or the Green, Each to their own.

[lembeckgems]

don't deal much with these stones. a world dealer that we know chuckled when we told him sunstone was being called red labradorite. he claims he coined this term. his name is Andy. consequently, we wondered where the term Adecine came from.

what we have been told is the congo is not a source. as for myself I will learn more from this board on this subject than I personally know. since no one in our family has ever had a gg degree. not that that is uncommon in the dealers stratum. don't know any color gem dealers on the street that are gg's except the retail dia guys but they don't count. hehe

lizo

[francesca]

The silliness has increased one hundredfold. Dawn T. just stated that since their stones have tested as both labradorite and andesine that it will be necessary for their stones to have a new name.


Labrasine or Andorite!!!!

Do we laugh? Do we cry?




Meant to add, Dawn also stated that JTV has sold the gem at such an astonishing rate that they have depleted the source.

There is no more.
Then why be making up a name for it?

[gem phenom]

I've bought some nice stones from JTV years ago when they were called ACN. They were trying to make a name for themselves back then and were selling some excellent quality stones at very low prices. They didn't show the hosts on camera and didn't have 10 minute speeches on why you should buy their gemstones. They didn't have a cute girl sitting next to Tommy Brown saying what a gorgeous stone that is and how rare it is and how low their price is! They just showed a stone and you could call in and buy that particular stone if you liked it. You could buy the actual stone that they were showing. Now they mostly sell multiples and the stone you get is not going to be anything like the stone that they are showing! It's called the bait and switch, basically. They show a really nice stone that is cut well, with no window, and with good clarity and color. The stone you receive will usually be windowed because it has been cut with a shallow pavillion in order to reduce the amount of rough that is used to make that stone. You might find a decent Tanzy or Emerald from them but you will have to be willing to dish out some cash for it! In my opinon, they are so full of themselves that it isn't funny! They are always saying how they have the best quality gemstones and the lowest prices in the industry and it just isn't true. They will say anything and everything to try and sell their stones and it's kind of pathetic. I tune in for short periods of time just to see what line of BS they are using today to sell their stones and how high their prices are at that time. Also, their show hosts are definitely not knowledgeable! They are not people who know about stones. They are salespeople, end of story! Scott, who is one of the show hosts, and a GIA gemologist. is particularly amusing (to put it in a nice way!). I'll quote one of his lines, " emeralds have inclusions, thats how mother nature intended them to be, thats how they get their color. Then, a minute later in his speech on why you need to buy these emeralds from JTV, "you know emeralds are colored by chromium and vanadium and chromium is a growth inhibitor". So what is it Scott? Is the color caused by inclusions or chromium and vanadium? He is the low point of a GIA education! My conclusion, don't waste your money on stones from JTV!
In my opinion it doesn't really matter where the red labradorite/andesine is coming from. What matters is the color, clarity and carat weight of the stone. The more red the better! And if it's red, the better the clarity and the bigger the stone, the more value you'll have. If you want to find out exactly what it is, my advice would be to send it to the GIA lab in Carlsbad Califonia. The best stones that I've seen available right now are from Direct Shopping Network. Excellent color, clarity and a variety of sizes. Some are reddish orange, and some are orangy red, but they are all nice stones for around $70.00/ct.

[gemfrance]

Hell
I am agreeing with you.
The first is the beauty and the finest.
When I have selected this new red feldspar, I have bought for the gemfrance inventory all the top red color and clean stones. I did not care if it was labradorite or andesine. I knew that it was a feldspar and new how rare a red feldspar is... rarest than blue Tourmaline, even Paraiba.
After, I sent the biggest stones to several laboratories. The result was for al these stones Andesine.
But if it was an other feldspar, the beauty of these stones is the same.
I can talk about what I have in my stock. Of course it is better for collectors to have a new gem as Andesine than Labradorite yet coming since a long time from Oregon.
But it is the first time that top red feldspar in such sizes is coming.
The red color is more rare. So it is why these color is more expensive than orange. And if you want also a clean stone with a perfect cutting, you have to pay the price.
No doubt that you can fine nice stones in the orange graduation on the channel TV, at a good price. The only information that I can give about that it is that we don't have the same range of color.
I know also that some people have put on the market some new red feldspar putting the name of andesine only because we was the first to promote that stones. They did not checked if it is andesine or labradorite. Perhaps it must be more strict to put only the name of feldspar.
Andesine, Labradorite, Feldspar are scientist names. Sunstone is a commercial name.
Perhaps we have to imagine a new commercial name for these new red and orange andesines and labradorites.
And don't forget that the boundary An50 between andesine and labradorite have been put by scientists. The nature is not so strict...

[spinel]

I have never seen labradorite from the rabbit hills area near Plush Oregon test at or below An60 labradorite with chemical test. That puts it at the upper range of labradorite and not near Andesine. RI might be difficult to determine if you have much schiller in the sample. I often hear that labradorite from Eastern Oregon aka "Oregon Sunstone" is the only feldspar colored by copper, I am not sure if this is really true. I do not know the chemical makeup of the Tanzanian Sunstone's spangles or much about it. I do not think you will have trouble seeing a strong band at 630 nm in any green labradorite from near Plush Oregon with your spectroscope. Band at 560 nm in red labradorite is not as easy to see but is very similar to band in copper-ruby glass. See September 1985 issue of Geology for article by Anne Hofmeister and George Rossman both from Cal Tech. The article is "Exsolution of metallic copper from Lake County labradorite". The lake County labradorite is very close to the boundry between labradorite and bytwonite. I have never heard of red or green bytwonite but who knows what will be found in nature someday? The minerals do not respect arbitrary boundries. I assume "Oregon Sunstone" from Ponderosa Mine in Haney County is very similar to that from Lake County near Plush oregon but I have no reports or samples to test. It might be a good idea to call most of these transparent facet grade fledspars just red feldspar, green feldspar or dichroic fledspar. All green labradorite I can remember seeing has at least a little red on one axis but sometimes it is very difficult to see. I can give you the name of a very good appraiser in Portland Oregon who has lots of experience with "Oregon Sunstone" if you wish.

[Marilyn803]

Again, I say that what is being sold as Red Labradorite/Andesine by JTV is NOT Sunstone. However, many people are selling Sunstone as Red Labradorite. Buyer beware and be especially beware of what you are buying off of websites and e-bay.
As far as JTV selling Red Labradorite and not callint it Andesine...you should be pleased as Andesine is a rarer stone than Red Labradorite. Please refer to my previous post and perhaps you'll understand why there is much confusion regarding this stone. Hang tight...you'll be hearing much more regarding this stone with the possibility of a new name...they are regarding this stone as a NEW gemstone. But it is NOT Sunstone. If you saw a Sunstone, you would clearly see the difference.

[stellargems]

I finally decided to jump in on the chats because they are very disturbing to read, constant bashing of JTV. I'm finding that when a "vendor" sells something for much less then other vendors, the only response to this is "bashing", and of course pushing the products from "vendors" with higher prices as being more trust worthy. Why is this. Like JTV says "why pay more" for the same thing? I know that if JTV was telling so many lies, they certainly wouldn't be selling as much as they do. Who out there is sueing them for false information? Who in this forum is stating actual facts? Gemfrance seems to push his product, the "sunstone" from Oregon with "schiller" is pushed, yet JTV is the worst? It's just becoming ridiculous!!!

[stellargems]

Originally Posted by Marilyn803

MissM...you did not quote Cheryl correctly when you referred to the misinformation coming from JTV. The story is and always has been that when they purchased their allotment, it was labeled Andesine...Andesine is far rarer and more expensive than Red Labradorite. They could not verify that it was Andesine (very difficult to verify), so they decided to label it Red Labradorite. The thinking was that they did not want to deceive the viewers/buyers. If it turned out NOT to be Andesine, they could be held liable. So, they chose to label it Red Labradorite and started running their own tests. If it turned out to be Andesine, you would then have a more valuable gemstone. After running many exhausting tests in house, they still did not have definitive answers, so they out sourced the tests. The difference in the two gemstones is in the percentage of calcium and sodium. What they found is the differences of both the calcium and sodium is so negligible, they are almost one and the same.

I guess I have a problem with people bashing JTV and, in most cases, are not hearing what is exactly being said...the information that is being passed on is in truth not being relayed correctly.

You also must take into consideration when buying their stones, the prices are different for the same carat weights....the differences lie in the quality of the stones. If you want a top quality stone, you will pay more for the same carat weight than you will for a lesser quality. In general, all of their stones are better quality than you see in most jewelry stores.

I'm glad to see someone else actually understanding what is being said on JTV. I've bought several andesine/labradorites from JTV and have made beautiful jewelry out of them. They always weighed more then the apx. If they didn't make my heart sing when I received them, I sent them back and was fully refunded.

[francesca]

Like JTV says "why pay more" for the same thing? I know that if JTV was telling so many lies, they certainly wouldn't be selling as much as they do. Who out there is sueing them for false information? Who in this forum is stating actual facts?

stellargems, Hello. I guess you don't see their sales approach as being needlessly confusing. I do. The hosts talk around and around in circles, starting with huge values on the gem material they are going to present, and finally sell it at a price that is likely the same as, or very close to, any retailer out there.

Within the last 24 hours I had the misfortune to witness Scott gasping and blowing about the "newest discovery and unveiled by JTV. . .
TA DA!!! . . . Mexican Bytownite Yellow Labradorite!!!!! Worthy of the Smithsonian!!!!

Well, yes, it was a 7ct yellow bytownite that looked pretty nice on the screen, but I daresay the Smithsonian has bytownite fully covered in their collections and just maybe the customers would be better served by having a gemologist inform on hardness, durability and suitability for use in jewelry.
Just saying.